Free-Range at Disneyland (with a 4-year-old!)

Hi Folks! Here’s a heartening letter from Susan in the Northwest, below.

And, on another not: Not to worry — I’ll be blogging AND vlogging and figuring out new ways to get the Free Range message out. I’m always looking for ideas and suggestions and sometimes…help. For instance, if anyone wants to research a topic like comparing two schools — one with a “background check required” policy for volunteers and one without, to see if the checks make any REAL difference (Is the school safer? Do fewer parents volunteer?) — that would be great. Grad students? Sociologists? Anyone? Drop a note!

Anyway, just trying to evolve!   – L. 

Dear FRK:  It’s almost a year now since I discovered Free Range Kids.  My husband and I read the book just before we took our then-4.5 year old to Disneyland.  We had a wonderful time, largely because of Free-Range Kids.

1)  We assessed the threat:  How likely is it that someone can/does kidnap children from Disneyland?  If it happened, it would be all over the news (which has never happened, now has it?), there are cameras everywhere in the darn park, and it is a mile from the rides to the front gate.  And really, what child kidnapper is going to fork over $69 A DAY on the CHANCE that there might be a kid to abduct.  Ok, that one had us laughing.


2)  We assessed our child.  She’s not a “runner,” one of those kids who will run away at first chance and never look back.  Nope.  She likes to stay pretty close.  Always has.  She’s highly verbal and can and reason like kids far older.


3)  We assessed ourselves:  What would our ideal day at Disneyland be with her?  Holding her hand tightly, all day because “she might get lost”  – OMG NO!  So we sat together and thought through what guidelines we planned to give her about the day.  About if she can’t see us, we can’t see her.  About what Disney employee name tags look like if she gets separated from us (the most likely scenario).  About placing my cell number on a piece of tape inside her skort in case that happens.  We consciously chose not to take “just in case” photos.


As we entered the park, we introduced her to a security guard, pointed out the name tag, and told her to find someone wearing one of those if perhaps we got separated.  (She showed him the tape with my cell # on it immediately!)  And we let her run ahead of us much of the day.  When navigating some bunches of crowds, we sometimes reminded her to be sure she could see us.


We laughed.
We rode rides.
We had fun.


And I know in my heart that it would have been a very different trip if we had not found Free-Range Kids the week before.


A few months later, her preschool teacher offered a special program for those kids who were going off to kindergarten and who had demonstrated the necessary skills.  It was called Tumbleweeds, and these kids rode public transportation and walked all over our city, to parks and fire stations and the zoo, with only a few chaperones.  And they felt enormously proud of themselves.


And in September, upon registering her for kindergarten, several parents of these children asked me how I could let my daughter (gasp) RIDE THE BUS TO SCHOOL?  But ride it she does, very successfully. — A mom who is goofy with glee!

39 Responses

  1. Rock on, Super Mom. FRK will be the ones who will be running the world in another twenty or thirty years.

  2. I remember when this was first posted in the comments. Given that the next time we will visit Disney there will be more little ones than adults I see this being how we handle the park. While we aren’t there yet people are surprised I let my almost three year old play in his room alone in his room or the play room. They are even more shocked to find out that I let my 15 month old do it too and have for quite some time. Sure there are bumps, bruises and fights over toys. There are also sweet moments like when my son “reads” to his sister, when they create new games or when they work together to get into mischief. One day they will ride the school bus starting in kindergarten and they will go to the neighborhood playground by themselves. I won’t have to worry about my neighbors calling the authorities because they all do the same and just like my son shows his sister the ins and outs of life in our family so with their friends show them the ins and outs of school, the playground and even the awesome kickball game that was played in front of my house last night.

  3. Wow. I love the idea behind that Tumbleweeds program.

  4. Thu Hubby was separated/wandered off from his parents at Disneyland when he was three years old (~30 years ago). He started on Tom Sawyer’s Island, took the boat across, and wandered to his hearts content for a few hours before a lady realized he was alone and took him to the lost and found (this was before they even had “Lost Children” locations). He remembers coloring in lost coloring books with lost crayons until his parents showed up.

    The next day he was the one giving “tours” to the rest of his family because he had been places they hadn’t. It’s honestly one of his fondest memories, being lost at Disneyland.

  5. One of my favorite teenage memories involves Disneyland. We (Brian, Joe, me) were in a crowd watching something. All of a sudden:

    Brian, to a woman standing next to him, “Excuse me, but your kid (who looked 2 or 3) just grabbed my hand.”
    Joe: “Hey Brian, why can’t you get a stuffed animal like everyone else!”
    Me, to the Mom, while pointing at the kid: “How much for this one?”
    Mom: “NOT for sale!”

    Such good times. In younger years (4th grade I think, so about 9 years old) we had family trips to Disneyland. We made plans to meet for lunch, then all took off different ways. Mom & Dad went one way, my brother went another, so did I. Exploring Disneyland on my own, going on whatever ride I wanted, was so much fun. Being dragged along with everyone else would have been Not Fun.

    Yes, there’s a big difference between 4 and 9. Can’t let a 4-year old go tearing off on her own all day. But freedom to explore, to talk to people, to really live? Those are the building blocks of successful adulthood.

  6. I was really happy to see a bunch of pre-teens on the Jersey Shore today unattended, behaving, not causing problems. I thought, “Hooray! Some free ranging kids!”

  7. Stories like this one make happy.

  8. A few of other suggestions for making sure a child has contact information in case they get lost while traveling

    1. Way before cell phones my Dad would take the hotel stationary, write a note giving us permission to ride in a cab back to the hotel. He put that and money for the fare in an envelope and that was pinned in our pockets. I wasn’t a runner, but a lag behinder. I would get caught up in the story of something we saw and the whole group would be 1/2 way down the block before I woke up. (We never had to use it) Dad joked that he basically did the same thing for our luggage. (We labeled it with our destination not home address. that way WHEN dad’s luggage got lost – it got lost least once a trip – it would end up with us instead of back home.)

    2. Coworker had a mildly special needs child who would pick at taped information (sensory issues). So coworker put their contact information on a small square of paper, laminated, and punched 2 holes. Then she would thread it through the laces at the bottom of the shoe (so the child would have to unlace the whole shoe to lose it).

    3. A student of mine with emotional problems and another student with autism had id tag necklaces with contact information on them.

    Every time we go to the zoo or museum we review the rules.
    1. If we get separated we will meet at (T-Rex, Merry-go-round)
    2. No going to the car – the adults will not leave without all the kids
    3. What do the staff members wear?
    3. .

  9. Make ME happy, rather. lol

  10. These are such great tips. I hope I remember all this when I’m a parent someday!

  11. My family would always stop when we got into the park. Dad would point out the biggest thing we could all see from anywhere in the park and announce that if we got seperated/lost to make our way there. Never had to do it though, the one time I got lost as a kid it was in the mall.

  12. when I was 4 my dad sent me through some big shopping centre in Singapore, we were there on holidays, Mum said I was “missing” for about 20 mins coz I stopped to sit on a step ( no idea why…i still remember sitting on it but not why lol) Mum was a free range mum but apparently she lost it and still starts swearing at dad if someone brings it up 30 years on… I ended up finding mum on my own and am pretty sure dad would have done the exact same thing if we were at Disney

  13. It’s very freeing to let your children enjoy life. I lost my four year old at Disney world and she found me no problem. She’s now 14 and still able to handle herself in the world

  14. I love this! I’m so glad you had fun without the stress Disney causes parents who are a bit more uptight. See Annie of PhD in Parenting’s blog post about what she liked and disliked (she had a real problem with the abuse she saw, in what is supposed to be the happiest place in the world):

    However, I would like to comment on one thing the OP said. No, no one hears about accidents or incidents at Disney, but it’s not because they never happen. It’s because the Disney parks have their own “towns” and their own police and fire forces. Accidents and incidents are not reported as they should be, and they don’t make the news. Most problems resolve with settlements that include confidentiality agreements.

    Don’t mistake me–I have no problem with kids being free range and I hate to see them on leashes in theme parks. Like a previous poster I have let my 18 month old play alone in her gated room since six months. But I do have a problem with Disney. While they have a crazy amount of security and cameras, they are anything but transparent about their safety, and about anything negative that happens in their parks.

  15. I worked at disneyland for 3 years and I heard stories of people trying to take kids. I dont remember it. But when a child is found by a cast member our parents lose them they lock down the gates till the child is found. Everyone who leaves with a child is looked at to see if they match the description. But most times I found lost kids and the parents minutes later. Cast members learn very quickly the look of a lost child.

  16. When we went to Disney, I didn’t consciously take “what if” pictures, but I took TONS of pictures so I certainly would’ve had one had we gotten separated, which was highly unlikely because even today, at 10, my son is a clinger and very shy. That said, if he had been a runner, I probably would’ve used daily pics just because that would make it easier to get reconnected amidst the thousands and thousands of people there.

    I did face some anti-FRK today. I mentioned leaving my child at home for an hour and my coworker went off. She said she was “almost raped” in her home and wouldn’t leave her 12-year old home alone. I didn’t ask what that situation was, based on past experience – there’s *always* some super negative drama in her life. Major health issues, supposed work sabotage, danger at her house. Something, always. So…I didn’t really think that she would be receptive to the FRK mission.

  17. I was in a discussion recently about an 11 year old, with unspecified learning differences getting lost. Trying to narrow down the times of the lost, got it down to the library. Which sounds exactly like my typical 12 year old. She wants to go out and learn and look at stuff on her own.

    Then it expanded to places like the county fair and the science center. Again, I told the mom we spent the whole week last year with my wanderer (the most said words from my mouth were “Have you seen my son?” ) Other than not eating when we wanted exactly, no issues. I pointed out that crime levels are down, and with security everywhere, fair is actually pretty safe.

    Another person chimed in that the fair was a dangerous place. Gangs, clean up crews made of felons, security is hired (not real police.) And, furthermore, crime is up and she knows it because she works around law enforcement. I pointed out that at least 250 4-H kids were there, and they are not allowed to have mom hanging on their sleeves – that looks like mom helping. Not a single kid had any issue with the staff, gangs or anything except heat.

    Then last night on the news at 10:00, they had a report about how the area is safer now than it was 20 years ago and crime is down. YES!

    Oh, and for the sanity of the mom, I suggested watches with timers – set them the same, meet when they go off, reset if they want. It allows him to learn on his own, not hang out with mom constantly, and she still knows where he is. If at the fair, confine it to the building if he wants to spend time looking at things while the family moves around.

  18. I never realized that I have done that very same thing when I was chaperoning a group of middle school kids to a nearby amusement park.

    the first time I did it, I had 15 boys, all going into 7th grade.
    they had their own smaller groups they wanted to be with and luckily each group had at least 1 cell phone. we exchanged numbers and I said “check with me by the carousel between 12:30 and 1 and be back on the bus by 3:45.

    My group was the first into the park, they all checked in either in passing or at the carousel, and they were all back on the bus by 3:45 and I got to wander the park alone and ride rides!
    the teacher liked my method so much, she called me to do it again this year. But, I had a group of 22 students (the largest one of all the chaperones) and was in charge of the entire second bus.

    I free ranged OTHER peoples kids and it worked! kids got to run around a huge amusement park and show that they could be responsible young adults. I wasn’t nearly as exhausted as a couple of the other chaperones who herded their entire groups around all day.

  19. Sounds like a great time at Disney we do this at the county fair. On the subject of buses was very excited that our summer reading program gave free bus passes to kids 6-17 after 2 hours read so they could ride to the library the rest of the summer.

  20. Great story 🙂

    Anyone needing reassurance, Disney World has security features that are ongoing but without actually being seen. If disaster strikes – which it rarely does – it has a system that can kick into gear immediately. At least Euro Disney World does. So does Legoland in Denmark but it’s low key, kids are encouraged to play and explore.

    Just enjoy it and have fun.

  21. I appreciate all your sentiments, and trust my 7 year old daughter in most all situations to take care of herself, find the right people, etc., but today we were at a water park we had never been to before, and after we got there, she asked me if she needed a life vest to put on, and I said “no, you’re 48″ tall, and you’re a good swimmer (park rules).”

    I was busy looking through my bag for something, and a few seconds later, I looked up and she was gone. I couldn’t find her.

    A few minutes of glancing around and calling her name, I still couldn’t find her, so I found one of the life guards there, and they helped me search the wave pool, and alerted another guard. She tried to be very reassuring,…but still I was panicking because i couldn’t find her. About 5 minutes after that, the girl helping me spotted my daughter in the wave pool, and said, “is that her?”…I almost lost it.

    I told my daughter how scared I was that I couldn’t find her. She said she “forgot” about making sure I knew where she was. I guess she just has this sense of freedom from when we go to our regular pool,…where she IS able to go and do pretty much whatever. But today I was one freaked out FRK mama!! If she had just told me “mom, I’m going to go play in the pool” I would have been fine with that, but she just walked off without telling me.

    It’s part of a bigger amusement park where she has been briefed many times about how big the place is, and should we get separated, what she should do, but she did not feel the same separation I did! Augh!!

    So I was the one to follow protocol and find someone to help me find HER, but wow, that was a very scary few moments!

  22. When my sweetie and I met up, he already had a pair of lovely 8 yo’s for me to enjoy. The first time we went for a walk, the kids had to stay within an arms reach of Dad. That evening we had a conversation and I asked him “why”? Well, they might do something rash,… etc. etc.
    The kids really wanted to run so we discussed it at length (mostly by asking him what he was doing at their age) and he agreed that the kids could “run ahead” but had to stay in sight and run back when he called. We worked it this way until he became more comfortable…. Then graduated to the kids could walk/ride around the neighborhood alone. Then Disneyland – would have them check in at intervals. If they did not, then they would have to stay in arms reach the rest of the day. That is not what they wanted to do!
    By 11yo they had graduated to being allowed to walk themselves to and from school which was a mile, and busy roads, away from the house.
    Now they have finished school and 17yo (now) my son :), drove 3 international visitors an hour away to catch the Metro and ride it into DC, and spent the day as Tour Guide, and brought everyone home again after a stop at the local fair for an hour.
    I love this stuff!

  23. We were at WDW with youngest who was turning 6. (it was his bday trip). We told him what to do if separated, not to wonder around trying to find us but to stop look around and go into or over to the first cast member he saw most likely one behind a cash register in store. or food vendor. He loved not holding hands and walked ahead of us. The only time we held his hand was when we were coming out of fantastic.

    Our other trip to WDW it was our older two who were 5th grade and 2nd grade we were there with cousins and we let our 5th grader go off with her cousins who were 5th grade and 4th grade while at thyphon lagoon.

    I never felt like I had to hold Thier hands and always be on top of them. How will they ever be able to live a strong life.

  24. Two years ago, when my son was 11, my family took a trip to Lake Garda in northern Italy. We went to all three amusement parks in the area.

    One of the amusement parks is a water park. When we first arrived, my son wanted to go on a “river” where you float on an inner tube. It was still a little chilly for my husband and me, but my son was up for it anyway. We looked at a park map, told him where we would meet him, then he took off down the river. When we got to the meeting point, my son wanted to continue. We set a new meeting point and let him float by himself until we met up again. Later on, when it got warmer, he asked my husband and me to join him because he wanted to show us how much fun he had by himself.

    Later during that trip, we went to Gardaland, which is a major amusement park with a mix of gentle rides for little kids and some scary-looking roller coasters (and a lot in-between). My husband and I wanted to ride the roller coaster that had a couple of loops, but my son refused to go on it. No amount of coaxing would convince him to try the coaster. But he saw a teacup ride (very similar to the Disney teacups) near the coaster and asked to go on it by himself. We set a meeting point between the two rides then got in line for our respective rides. My son finished his ride first and was waiting for my my husband and me when we got off the roller coaster. As with the inner tubes, he wanted my husband and me to take a teacup ride with him to show us what we missed by going on the roller coaster instead.

    I found it interesting that nobody at either park questioned my son about being by himself or asked where his parents were. Maybe I’m a “bad” parent, but the last thing on my mind when my son was by himself was of him being abducted. Between all of the families at both parks, and the number of park employees, I figured that only an extremely stupid kidnapper would try to snatch a child in front of so many witnesses. But my Stateside friends had the typical, “What if something happens?” response when I said that my son was by himself for brief periods at both parks. My reply was, “Something did happen. We all had a great time.”

  25. I think it’s interesting that we tell our children to find someone with a name tag. I just tell my kids to find a mother with kids to ask for help. I’d say parent but feel being specific is more helpful. I figure there are more of them around than someone with a name tag. And I know as a parent if a little child ask for help cause they were lost I’d help as much as I could.

    We’re headed to Disneyland, I plan on being as free range with my kids as I can be. It’ll make the trip more fun.

  26. I told my daughter that if she gets lost in a mall she must ask a cashier, security guard or mom/parent with kids for help. Her first question was “Why not someone else?”.

  27. congratulations for allowing your child to have some independence and teaching them how “not to be a victim”, children today lack self help skills. I see this everyday as a teacher – kids who are so used to having everything done for them. Kids who can’t even take off their own jumper or open a lunch box. Teaching your kids how to look after themselves is empowering for them and helps with their self esteem. Don’t underestimate your children’s ability.

    On another note – I was home from work on Thursday and live down the road from our local primary school. It was a joy to see children walking home from school without a parent hovering over them, they were chatting with friends, playing with sticks and generally having a lovely time and being independent. So nice compared to the other kids that were being ushered around in big 4W drives hogging the road and being ferried home to sit around the tv for the afternoon. Some lovely little freerange kids in our street and what a great time they have on a sunny afternoon playing with their friends, riding bikes and building “forts” in the bushland behind our houses. Just lovely

  28. For my son’s first D-land trip he was three, I got him an ID bracelet with my cell # on it & he kept taking it off, so I decided not to worry. My son loves the stroller so he didn’t wander much, as he got older & wanted to walk I explained to him if he got lost or separated form us to look for someone who works there (I pointed out the street sweepers & store clerks), but if he couldn’t find someone who worked there then to go up to someone with kids & tell them you are lost & they would help. Although I’m sure a child abduction can happen at Disneyland I don’t believe it’s likely to. I do agree that Disneyland keeps stuff hush hush I think if a child was abducted & not found right away it would be on the news. That said they have lots of cameras & lots of very hidden security. It never occurred to me to worry about abduction, just him getting lost. When I was 12 I went with friends & our parents dropped us off & left us there all day & that was in the pre cell phone days. If I did have a young runner or wanderer I don’t see anything wrong with a leash type harness, most of them are cute & I remember my son even asking for one.

  29. Couldn’t find an email address sorry, but thought you might like to read this…


  30. Disney is one of my favorite places to visit. So many happy memories, dating from when I was 10 all the way to two or three years ago! I’m glad the OP had a happy trip, and I think 4.5 is the perfect age to take them. I used to see people with 1-2 year olds and thought that looked like the 7th ring of hell, especially when it was late at night, and they were waiting for the bus back to the hotel, or standing in a long line in the 90-degree heat…ugh.

    There was a really persistent urban legend about a kidnapping gang at Disney that dyed the kids’ hair and smuggled them out, but it really was just that: a completely fabricated urban legend. Disney has TONS of staff everywhere you go, and I’m sure many more plainclothes security guards that just blend in. I always thought of it as a pretty safe place.

  31. Well, a cashier or security guard will theoretically know the best and most efficient way to get help.

    At any rate, cashiers can’t leave their counters and even the most vicious criminal might think twice before kidnapping a child right in front of his or her own kids. There ARE the few rare freaks out there, so having a way to winnow through and pick the person least likely to do harm… well, at best it’s useful and at worse it’s at least not harmful to your kid to sort folks into these categories.

    Of course, the rule my nieces live by is that they can talk to pretty nearly anybody so long as they aren’t silly enough to walk off with them. The only person they should be walking off with is a security guard or cop they specifically asked to help them, and then only if the preferable option of “wait for us to come back” has been rejected for some reason.

  32. When our daughter was younger we used to write a cell number on her arm.

  33. I am very much a FR parent, right down to my 13 year old babysitting her younger siblings regularly (ok, babysitting the 3 year old and arguing about being in charge with the 11 year old ;)); however, I see nothing “anti free-range” about hand holding in crowds. My 13 year old still even reaches for my hand. We taught them this at an early age, not because we thought they would be abducted but because it makes sense in a crowd and no one wants to spend the day trying to find each other when you could be doing fun stuff. If I am in a busy place with my sister and we don’t want to get separated we reach for each others hands….as adult women. It just makes sense.

    I personally hate being in places like amusement parks when parents don’t keep their kids near (by near I do not mean hover and I am fine with kids going off on their own or ahead to a ride, when they are old enough to do so responsibly), because I find that kids who are “running” ahead are usually doing just that, running and running into people, in front of people, etc….

    On that note…I HATE HATE HATE leashes. In a REALLY busy place, like a large airport, I can see wrist connectors between parent and toddler, but I will share my “worst ever” leash story. A couple years ago, when we lived in a newer subdivision, I looked out my front window to the sidewalk (the ones my children rode bikes and skateboards around the block on) and saw a woman “walking” two children around the age of 18-24mths….when I say she was “walking” them, I do not joke. Each of them was on their own leash….she was walking behind them, walked them around the block like this. Like dogs. I was stuck somewhere between hysterical laughter and sadness for these poor little girls.

  34. My daughter just finished kindergarten. She rode the bus to/from school practically every day. Since she was in kindergarten, an approved adult was required to be at bus stop at drop off and pick up. Looking forward to first grade when I can kiss her good bye and then send her out the door knowing she is confident and JUST FINE!! My biggest problem with the bus is the 3rd and 4th grade attitudes she likes to try out at home!! But guess what, she has friends in every grade. She is not intimidated by the big kids… Because of riding the bus!

  35. This is from (so there is foul language and an overall bad attitude) but still, he makes a valid point.

  36. Our oldest girl is just 5 and knows my cell number, but her younger sisters don’t yet. And because we are worried that even our 5 year old might forget our number if she is lost, we use “411 Bracelets” from a company called Mabels Labels – they are just disposable bracelets that show our phone numbers and are really hard for little people to take off. They all know that if we get separated, they are to find an adult and show them their bracelet. I can’t imagine spending a day at Disneyland and having to constantly be right on top of your kids. It’s exhausting enough as it is.

  37. This discussion brings back memories of the first time my daughters went to Disneyland and the younger one renamed the place “Busyland”. On a later visit we did manage to “lose” her near the Swiss Family Robinson tree house, and I did get rather tired of the background music on its endless tape loop. It seemed like a long time, but we did get back together and continued our visit. Regarding holding hands in crowds–my wife and I do that and we’re eligible for senior citizen rates.

  38. Disney is a VERY free-range company… if you watch the shows on their channel you will notice that (as far as I know) no child who was casted at over age 8 when the show started has ever been depicted as being driven to school, and walking is implied or even overtly mentioned at times. Also, for a couple of more extreme examples, Zack and Cody practically went anywhere they want to in the hotel they lived in at age 11, and went to a boarding school on a cruise ship at age 15. Gabe from Good Luck Charlie was seen buying a doll for Charlie at 13. And don’t even get me started about Phineas and Ferb, who are depicted as being 10… the whole (subtle yet blatant) point of that show is that kids are more capable than their parents realize. Disney/Pixar movies have the same ideals — Finding Nemo would easily have been the most controversial movie of its decade if its creators hadn’t been as subtle as they were at conveying the point. For instance, at one point Marlin says, “I promised him I would never let anything happen to him.” Dory then replies, “That’s a funny thing to promise. If nothing ever happens to him, then nothing will ever happen to him.” Much of the audience will think that’s an impropriety created by Dory’s short-term memory loss… however, the more you think about it, the more you realize what she really meant: “If nothing [bad] ever happens to him, then nothing [good] will ever happen to him.” Or, basically, life has its falls and if you go all kamikaze trying to prevent the falls, then you will also take away the life. Disney’s key message — that kids are more capable than others realize — is very true and immensely powerful. For instance, the first and so far only skateboarder to land a 1080 (three full rotations) recently graduated… from elementary school that is. Currently 12-year-old Tom Schaar is at the X Games, having qualified yesterday for today’s finals in the Big Air event (aka MegaRamp, but afaik they didn’t get the rights to say that trademarked name). Several of the other competitors have yet to land a 900, much less a 1080. He previously won the X Games Asia earlier this year, becoming the youngest X Games gold medalist ever. If that doesn’t show that kids can be just as capable (if not more so… he beat these people out, not just tied them) as adults, I’m not sure what does

    By the way, Disney Parks’ policy on supervision says that children must be at least 7 years old OR supervised by an adult. However, it is mentioned in several places (mostly in pricing, but legally that supersedes any implied ages as it’s explicitly mentioned) that Disney considers anyone age 10 or older to be an adult. Disney WATER PARKS have the same policy, but with the age of 7 changed to 10. These policies are quite hard to find and as far as I know are not available anywhere on their website, but anyone getting an annual pass has to sign a paper that mentions those rules on it.

  39. KyohakuKeisanki, love your coments

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